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State of the Industry and You@ANext10
FUNi Sneak Peek@ANext10
Home Made Kazoku@Otakon10
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Disappearance of Haruhi@NYAF10
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State of the Industry@AB11
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Geneon (by FUNi)@Otakon12
|Unedited Feed from the The State of the Industry and You (Ayres) at AnimeNext 2010. Transcription: bayoab
Note: ( ) is usually commenting on the panel and was not said.
14:02:19 <bay|ANext|Ayres> How are you guys doing....
14:02:23 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (Panel is overflowing)
14:02:32 <bay|ANext|Ayres> This isn't about voice acting
14:02:47 <bay|ANext|Ayres> THis is a panel about the sad state of the industry (paraphrase)
14:03:04 <bay|ANext|Ayres> How many of you went to the panel 2 years ago?
14:03:17 <bay|ANext|Ayres> How many thought ADV would be gone?
14:03:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> The truth is that we're left with 2 big anime distributors and that's it
14:03:57 <bay|ANext|Ayres> CPM is gone, Geneon is gone...
14:04:06 <bay|ANext|Ayres> I thought Manga is gone but they are still working as licensing entity
14:04:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> Believe or not but they still have a decent market in europe
14:04:28 <bay|ANext|Ayres> Even as far as magazines go, there is no anime insider, there is no newtype
14:04:39 <bay|ANext|Ayres> We're looking at a different time period now, and looking at a different situation
14:04:44 <bay|ANext|Ayres> I had to retool this panel.
14:05:03 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (Talking about health and last year)
14:05:49 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience has interjected and derailed)
14:06:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> There has foreven been the argument that Fanasubbing is advertising
14:06:17 <bay|ANext|Ayres> The streaming sites don't just run episode 1...
14:06:18 <bay|ANext|Ayres> they run the whole show
14:06:35 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (This is the nabeshin argument, only ep 1)
14:06:46 <bay|ANext|Ayres> Old school anime fans remember when people wouldn't say FU to the Japanese
14:07:05 <bay|ANext|Ayres> The idea that we got to the point in fandom where the fans have no respect for the creators is ...
14:07:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (Audience....)
14:07:39 <bay|ANext|Ayres> I hear the argument that people go out and buy it but I can prove it wrong with one example: One Piece
14:08:05 <bay|ANext|Ayres> I hear all sides of that argument and the problem with it is that FUNpiece... er One PIece and Naruto were two big deciding factors
14:08:36 <bay|ANext|Ayres> people i know have those two entire series on their computer. In some cases were special edition rips.. they kept saying they would buy it ....
14:08:36 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and then it was "buy i hate what 4kids did"
14:08:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> a lot of the things that 4kids did were things that the japanese insisted on... granted that 4kids is know for destroying things
14:09:06 <bay|ANext|Ayres> And then they bitched about how many eps were on the disc
14:09:31 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's one of those things wehre i know there are people who go out and watch and buy it, just had a debate on facebook about scanlations..
14:09:45 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the things i tried to tell the person is can you defend it to the creators face
14:10:03 <bay|ANext|Ayres> since i started doing this, i tried to find out how the japanese felt about it... and the japanese felt that the their hands were tied
14:10:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> but at this point, the people who claims to be fans, they aren't putting money back into the genre
14:10:23 <bay|ANext|Ayres> if someone broke into your house over and over, eventually you would have to say something
14:10:33 <bay|ANext|Ayres> sadly, we've seen some people stand up and get shaken down for it
14:10:55 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the president of gonzo stood up and got interviewed... arthur let the interviewer have it...and the reaction the fans had was horrifying...
14:11:04 <bay|ANext|Ayres> he didn't resurface in public because people had turn it into a paraiah....
14:11:07 <bay|ANext|Ayres> all he said was don't steal
14:11:15 <bay|ANext|Ayres> something directly relevant to gonzo is...
14:11:23 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there are a few things that people argue with me over the years...
14:11:35 <bay|ANext|Ayres> is that things in the states don't affect japan...
14:11:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> no, the fact is that everything you do in the states greatly affects japan...
14:12:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (example about an animator in the states who contacted the gonzo...)
14:13:07 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (when she contacted gonzo, they first had 2 offices, then they had closed their shinjuku office before she had even got there...)
14:13:37 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i know i was working at 4-5 gonzo shows at once, but now i can only thing of one
14:13:37 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (the pictures from the offices paint a different picture fro what people imagine0
14:13:56 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the week that i was in the hospital, when all the people speculated i was dead.... that was the week that gonzo fired 40 people
14:14:32 <bay|ANext|Ayres> a lot has changed... i can't do that old panel anymore
14:14:38 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i can't argue with people about whether it is okay, it just isn't
14:14:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i don't care if it isn't licensed
14:14:59 <bay|ANext|Ayres> people say it might never come out here and then it happens and nobody buys it (kodocha)
14:15:25 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's kinda neat, when i started, people wouldn't speak up, now people will...
14:15:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> back in the day when i did the fight, now there are people fighting for me
14:15:43 <bay|ANext|Ayres> how many people saw the 40 group antiscanlation site group
14:15:56 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (Audience)
14:16:53 <bay|ANext|Ayres> To give you an idea of what a task it is... Lance Heskill at FUNi..... back in the day, he didn't think it was a problem, and when he first started to realize it, he sat down and made it his business to get all of FUNI's IP removed from youtube
14:16:55 <bay|ANext|Ayres> he thought it would take a week
14:17:07 <bay|ANext|Ayres> people who are content providers can apply to the content removal tool which lets you pull stuff
14:17:29 <bay|ANext|Ayres> lance spent a week doing nothing more than pulling stuff and what he was finding that some of the stuff he pulled was back up before he was done
14:17:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i personally got ghost stories removed 3 or 4 times and once i got a nasty letter back
14:17:58 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's a really daunting attack
14:18:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (skip)
14:18:53 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the anime's industry approach to dealing with this... we all know the music industry's problem.. it's much easier for me to see the damage done to the anime industry
14:19:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> people think the companies are in glass towers... adv is in a warehouse
14:19:19 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience)
14:19:43 <bay|ANext|Ayres> yes, it's a niche, anime only makes up 1% of the entire entertainment industry
14:19:46 <bay|ANext|Ayres> crispin also shared this stuff with me
14:19:58 <bay|ANext|Ayres> he sat in on the panel in 2007... he actually offers the information
14:20:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there was a study done when hollywood was looking into piracy.. intot he amount of torrent files...
14:20:15 <bay|ANext|Ayres> anime users share more data than any other users
14:21:06 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience... point back on how the RIAA did it)
14:21:22 <bay|ANext|Ayres> fans.... think they are a part of the process that they are watching
14:21:33 <bay|ANext|Ayres> at some point, fans started to feel entitled to the property itself and feel they have the right to take it
14:21:45 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and when artists try to reclaim their IP, fans have turned around and bitten their hands off
14:22:20 <bay|ANext|Ayres> what i've told them and what i tell everybody, i don't worry about pissing someone off who is stealing from me
14:22:27 <bay|ANext|Ayres> if you are stealing from me, i have no concern for you what so ever
14:22:35 <bay|ANext|Ayres> to me, being a fan of it means supporting it with your money
14:22:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> because you contribute to the creation of that
14:23:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's really hard to see with an industry
14:23:27 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience re simulcasts)
14:23:45 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there used to be a weird law that we couldn't work on things for 11 weeks after they aired in japan
14:23:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (it's a standard broadcast clause, not a law)
14:24:02 <bay|ANext|Ayres> that window period is now gone, and shikabane was the first one...
14:24:07 <bay|ANext|Ayres> but look at what happened with one piece...
14:24:18 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and some jackass hacked their site and grabbed it before it was available and made funi look bad
14:24:39 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i know there is that mentality around 4chan of "because I can".... (lost)
14:24:48 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience)
14:25:08 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (yes, the site wasn't hacked, they had no security)
14:25:48 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about places to buy stuff )
14:26:03 <bay|ANext|Ayres> do you see the anime industry following the music industry and going digital? (q from crowd)
14:26:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the problem is itunes has become it's own problem...
14:26:19 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's giant, everyone wants their stuff there...
14:26:24 <bay|ANext|Ayres> hoping we see itunes for video at some point
14:26:44 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i do hope that digital streaming and digital distribution is the future...
14:26:53 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it costs a lot of money to produce a dvd...
14:27:17 <bay|ANext|Ayres> digital distribution doesn't require all those things
14:27:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> you can spend some of the money on advertising
14:27:31 <bay|ANext|Ayres> when speed grapher came out on itunes, it was competing with lost for the first few weeks
14:27:47 <bay|ANext|Ayres> little did we know, it was the first time something that adult had been made on itunes
14:28:02 <bay|ANext|Ayres> funi advertised that show in weird places, but the sales market never found it
14:28:06 <bay|ANext|Ayres> but on the net, they found it
14:28:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> getting that to happen and getting people to support it
14:28:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (difference between raw and subtitled and such)
14:28:47 <bay|ANext|Ayres> No difference since the advent of DVD
14:29:19 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the reason things are being released subtitled first is that otherwise people will just release it online with horrible subtitles
14:29:33 <bay|ANext|Ayres> to give you an idea of how fast we can turn things around... nerima daikon brothers.. the entire disc was done in 2 weeks
14:29:51 <bay|ANext|Ayres> granted, we pulled 10 hours days...
14:29:58 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the fact is a show can be done overnight
14:30:05 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the first fmp can be done in under a month
14:30:29 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the things that hold up the release are red tape and marketing...
14:31:00 <bay|ANext|Ayres> you don't have to choose between the three, i understand there are people who come here who hate dubs, as long as you buy your jp dvd, i don't care
14:31:26 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the raw though is the problem because thats what makes it on the internet first
14:31:35 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and the simultaneous releases are the way to fight it and they are a lot of work
14:31:43 <bay|ANext|Ayres> getting stuff done and getting materials from japan.. it's a lot of work
14:32:02 <bay|ANext|Ayres> just to give you some facts...this is something that arthur said to me
14:32:22 <bay|ANext|Ayres> within 24 hours, raws are on subs at the end of a day, 3 language subs... 14 language subs within a week... including finnish
14:32:30 <bay|ANext|Ayres> if we can get legit subs from the getgo, we'll delete that stuff...
14:32:38 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience)
14:33:55 <bay|ANext|Ayres> Viz isn't out of the game.. FUNi is the big kid on the block, they set the standards...
14:35:15 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience)
14:36:35 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (noting that all the companies are competing and that the fans thus lose because they won't work together for digital distro things)
14:37:14 <bay|ANext|Ayres> simpsons generates more on hulu than on tv for ad dollars... south park site makes tons... people watch them over and over
14:37:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i think our stuf being online has affected sales
14:38:31 <bay|ANext|Ayres> digital is working, FUNI's youtube channel is getting advertising revenue
14:38:56 <bay|ANext|Ayres> Arthur said there are only two ways to attack piracy.... legally and education...
14:39:26 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the anime industry is doubly scared to get into lawsuits because the fans state that they have a right to it
14:39:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> people crucified when the RxJ C&D went out
14:39:48 <bay|ANext|Ayres> all we've been able to do for years is educate people
14:39:56 <bay|ANext|Ayres> unfortunately, we've been screaming down the barrel of a 4chan gun
14:40:11 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience: is it too late?)
14:40:44 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i think the industry has waited too long to take a stance
14:41:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i've been doing these panels for a long time and when i started even industry people claimed it was bs.... then 2 years later they started saying the same things
14:42:00 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (resting while he anecdotes about his friends)
14:42:51 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i blame the industry for not acting professionally and fast enough
14:42:59 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there have been a few of us who have been really vocal about this stuff
14:44:20 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about digital distro issues)
14:45:21 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about how DRM is considered evil)
14:45:32 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there is not a solution that is workable and likeable
14:45:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the beastie boys were liked that... they wanted to try and add stuff to the album, to add sonmething to the disc to make it harder to copy....
14:46:12 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and you know who fought them? the people who managed cd and dvd standards because you have to adhere to certain standards to get that logo
14:46:39 <bay|ANext|Ayres> at the same time, people were talking about how their computers would get destroyed...
14:46:56 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the problem is that people shoot the messenger... or someone who tries to do something...
14:47:26 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (this panel seems to have hit the speaking to the choir problem)
14:49:33 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about DRM and outerculture)
14:49:46 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talk about wrong messaging... and the entertainment industry)
14:50:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i've always said i don't do this because i'm a voice actor but i like what we have, but people don't understand this, but i've always likened this fight to the apple computer situation
14:50:46 <bay|ANext|Ayres> apple should have been gone in the 80s
14:51:12 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and there were some users who were religiously fanatic about the problem and they supported apple through their bad years and stuck witht he company and the loyalty is what drove them to a different business model
14:51:44 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the difference in this fight is our fans are the only people i know who are fighting to kill the company, they are fighting for free this and how dare you take this away from me which is the opposite of a supportive business model
14:52:27 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the original purpose of this panel when i started doing it was that ...there were things that we said ...there are things we have a right to demand of anime companies whichi thought were justified at the time.... quicker releases, ability to taste test, quicker production...
14:52:42 <bay|ANext|Ayres> and we've gotten all those things 10 fold since then... i have a hard time with people saying the industry has something to do for us
14:53:12 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (question about no new fans....)
14:54:43 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (the adult swim isn't our friend rant)
14:54:43 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i think our future is the on demand programming about japanese culture and programming and the like
14:54:48 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's been brought up before...
14:55:18 <bay|ANext|Ayres> unfortunately for the guys, the new fan stuff is all for the girls
14:56:01 <bay|ANext|Ayres> we don't have a block on tv ...and we don't have a reliable anime magazine...
14:56:15 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there is a way to promote things coming out without giving it away
14:57:27 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (disney and ghibli)
14:59:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (legit manga application?)
15:00:51 <bay|ANext|Ayres> so far, the digital hasn't taken off...
15:02:10 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about scanlations)
15:02:29 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the problem with getting some artists signed in the states is that their stuff is already available online
15:04:49 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (more manga stuff.....)
15:04:59 <bay|ANext|Ayres> more frustrating to date, collectors of rave master
15:05:07 <bay|ANext|Ayres> there was a time when it wasn't known if the last 3 vols wouldn't come out
15:05:23 <bay|ANext|Ayres> happy anytime someone can stick to a release schedule, for manga fans, it's something we need to have faith in a publisher...
15:06:03 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience)
15:06:17 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the manga companies in and of themselves have problems....
15:06:25 <bay|ANext|Ayres> TP took on too much too fast...and FUNImation is doing it too
15:06:33 <bay|ANext|Ayres> you can only take on the amount of work you can feasibly put back
15:07:36 <bay|ANext|Ayres> unfortunately, TP was juggling a ton of titles at once... 5 or 6 A list titles..and since they have such a huge distribution....they were going out and coming back in...
15:07:47 <bay|ANext|Ayres> companies are going to have to figure out ways to release things that don't cost as much money
15:10:08 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (any progress?)
15:10:26 <bay|ANext|Ayres> something we don't ever talk about.. is what's working... VOD seems to have a nice audience and seems to be a successful model
15:10:36 <bay|ANext|Ayres> streaming media is working really welll... hulu, funi....
15:10:54 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i can put links on my facebook to shows
15:10:54 <bay|ANext|Ayres> i love hulu because it allows me to promote shows in a different ways
15:11:03 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the funi channel on youtube... and funi continues to try to get on broadcast TV
15:11:08 <bay|ANext|Ayres> of course, DB will be on TV until the end of time
15:11:38 <bay|ANext|Ayres> FUNi of course has their own problems... you notice we don't see extras on DVDs...
15:11:44 <bay|ANext|Ayres> very few shows come with premium extras...
15:11:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> you see less and less of that...
15:12:16 <bay|ANext|Ayres> we're also expected to record faster... in some cases, there is one studio who wanted to record an entire disc for <$500... which is unreasable
15:12:30 <bay|ANext|Ayres> we have day to day business struggles, no company is without them
15:13:50 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (audience)
15:15:05 <bay|ANext|Ayres> the only time i've seen sharing between companies is with FMP:TSR
15:15:19 <bay|ANext|Ayres> with that and the wallflower, is the only time we've done work for funi outside of the studio
15:16:16 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about bestbuy restrictions)
15:17:21 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (sway that bestbuy has...and now they've left the market)
15:19:00 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (stories about walmart and sales)
15:21:18 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (trsi promoting)
15:23:30 <bay|ANext|Ayres> anime fandom grows at 15%/year
15:23:36 <bay|ANext|Ayres> at the conventions
15:23:51 <bay|ANext|Ayres> it's popular.... yet we see it less...
15:24:57 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (people in here haven't heard of TRSI)
15:27:07 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (anime is expensive from audience)
15:29:36 <bay|ANext|Ayres> we have to deal with that we are a small niche market...
15:30:39 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about some of beck's history...)
15:31:16 <bay|ANext|Ayres> mtv got burned with heatguy j
15:31:52 <bay|ANext|Ayres> we have a japanese market that doesn't really understand the american market... and they are terrified of the internet...
15:34:50 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about reverse importation)
15:34:50 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (he still doesn't know japan...not bothering with this)
15:37:16 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (netflix)
15:37:32 <bay|ANext|Ayres> those services, netflix, etc, pay for the videos
15:37:39 <bay|ANext|Ayres> they do see a small % from those
15:38:24 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (he refuses to acknowledge CR because they started illegal)15:38:24 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (he refuses to acknowledge CR because they started illegal(
15:39:21 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about CR)
15:40:21 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (claims that CR was the 3rd or 4th most popular site of all at one point)
15:43:37 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (talking about various illegal sites)
15:48:57 <bay|ANext|Ayres> (basically been having a back and forth with one guy since the last thing i typed)
15:55:49 <bay|ANext|Ayres> End